For quite some time now everyone has been looking forward to the finals of the Guile Debate. Ehe elimination round were contestants argued that "Reasonableness is not the Norm" set the standard. And the finalists, Katie Seymour, Thomas Wong, Matt Brandon and Sean Bennett definitively did not dissapoint. The event was held at the Law Courts Inn downtown and the resolution this time rounds was: "BE IT RESOLVED THAT THE LAW IS PRETTY GOOD BUT VIOLENCE IS THE ANSWER."
Due to the change in venue a nice school bus was organized to get everyone from the beer up to the Law Courts Inn. That only added to the fun as probably close to 80 people piled into a bus that could only fit 48. But somehow everyone got there - at least those who wanted.
I'm not going to write anything more about the debate itself aside for saying that it was an absolute blast. I did however take the liberty of transcribing parts of the speeches from a recording (batteries were dying so didn't get it all). I really hope that none of the participants mind since this would give those who didn't attend an opportunity to join in a laugh or two. (If however you'd prefer it not being posted let me know and I'll take it off the website). I appologize for any mistakes or any missed parts... did the best I could - and according to me - the best parts should be in there.
Hope you guys enjoy.
Katie:
“Distinguished judges, honorable guests, friends, and little people. I’m going to argue today that the law is pretty good but violence is the answer… Violence already exists in the law as we know it. Even more the law could be improved with a little violence and we could get more people involved in the legal process Our learned friends who want to try and convince you that the law stands alone in its integrity and should remain unchallenged; That the dispute resolution system as we know it is effective;That in fact we should all feel warm and fuzzy about peace and love. And in a way we can all agree on that. It’s the Christian way. Do you know who else was Christian? Jesus. And how did he die? Violently. And when people came to watch… I am not making this up.
How do we measure time. After dinner? After dominions? No friends. After death. Our learned friends will say that the law is good because it orders society. Does it though? As to my first point there is plenty of law currently in society that requires violence. Playground law. The law of the playground says that if some kids steals your Tonka truck, you take that truck and you truck him up. Sibling law says that if there is a older brother and a younger sister certain rules might be followed. So big brother your authority is challenged perhaps by a well thought out tattletale. Do you talk out your problems with little sis and end up ridding in the back seat and eating the extra broccoli for the rest of eternity? No you melt her Barbie’s face off. Similar to these ideas is household law. In the house parents have been known to use both threats to spank as well as real spankings. Dr. Phil calls this law bad parenting. I say that if your parents loved you enough they taught you some lessons. First lessons: nobody is immune from the wooden spoon.
Moving on the law of the jungle also resorts to violence to handle disputes. We’re talking survival of the fittest. If you can’t run you get eaten. If you can’t climb you get trampled. People love watching this kind of stuff. We have a number of television shows to prove it: When Animals Attack, When Weather Attacks, or my personal favorite, When Gravity Attacks. Counsel may argue that people aren’t motivated by primal instinct alone. In fact people are civilized, rational human beings. We say: speak for yourselves.
If we throw in some humans into the wilderness the law of the jungle would not change. We all read Lord of the Flies. Those kids tried their best: they set up a democracy… and a choir. And I admit that the choir thing is a bit mystifying. I hope that when I get stranded on an island, I am rarely amazed by grace, but regardless, those kids had some good intentions. Throw in a wild beast and a kid named Piggy into the mix and the whole dam thing fell apart."
Sean:
I would really look great in a pair of those really tight lulu lemon yoga pants. Yeah I would. I mean if you’ve got it, flaunt it. I’ll be the first to admit that there are a few good laws in this country. For example a great law is detailed in the Currency Act of Canada which states that one cannot pay for a purchase of $15 or more using just pennies, nickels, dimes, quarters and loonies. Even so the problem then becomes a lack of enforcement. See a good law without enforcement is like a guy trying to pick up a girl in a women’s studies class. It’s just a waste of effort. Believe me I’ve tried. Several times. It doesn’t work. So the other day I was at Old Navy and yes I do shop at Old Navy – I’m not a high rolling lawyer yet. Anyway. There’s this huge line and only one till was open. After 10 minutes of waiting and thinking of small talk to the incredibly attractive clerk I watched in disbelief as a guy dumps an entire plastic bag full of coins on the counter. It’s like the guy has been saving all this change for the past 2 years to make the big purchase of a shirt that said “kiss me I’m Irish” and there’s no way that this guy was really Irish. He was wearing a Cores Light T-shirt. If he was really Irish he would find Cores Light so watered down that he would brush his teeth in it. It takes him exactly 5 minutes to separate exactly 15.62 and all I can do is shake my head and think: where is the enforcement of the Currency Act of Canada.
Thomas:
If this were a test Luke Perry would be an acceptable answer. But this ainn’t no test. This ainn’t shadow puppets either. (Keep in mind that he started his speech by saying that if you can’t see his hands you will miss 18% of the entertainment). This debate is about the very fabric of our society. Not about how to make frivolous but tremendously entertaining shapes on the wall with the simple use of hands. I might impress you. Bear. Or Rabbit. Or Fox. I digress.
No ladies and gentlemen what I’m symbolically representing here is the fulcrum of our judicial system. That’s right I say fulcrum. There are more words of that caliber to follow. We are thought in law school to pronounce this here symbol as “AND”. Cook AND Lewis. Bruce AND Dire. These are not comedy duos. These are antagonists in the court of law. Court of law. You and I know as clear as the Chinese on my face that this stands for versus. And versus, to any right thinking person means, battles. And I know what you’re thinking. Thomas, when I spoke to you this morning you didn’t have that accent. … This raises an interesting issue
Truth is laws are not the answer. … The truth is as plain as my ethnicity. Historically, ladies and gentlemen, violence has always been the best answer. Always!!! There is not a single recorded incident in history where violence did not provide the best possible outcome. Imagine if you will Hamlet without violence. Not only would the play be 30 hours long but to be or not to be would go through 3 courts of appeal….
You are all familiar with the Peloponnesian war. If they had to rely on international law we would have had an Athenian empire stretching all the way out to Sicily.
So what did we do… we declared war on it and no more terror. We can’t just stop terror by coddling it with ideals that conform with human dignity. Nope. To fight terror sometimes you have to stomp on those laws. How about drugs? Time was drugs were a problem. No really they were. It may be hard to believe, but what happened we declared war on it and gonzo, to get premium bud you got to drive down to Mexico…
Whenever we had a problem we had 2 choices. Make a law about it or declare war on it.
The veracity of my claim can be proven by simple hypothetical situation. Who would win a fight between the following: a bear or a man? Now I know what you’re thinking. Thomas, a bear can eat a man, but a man can’t eat a bear. On the surface this is true. But a man can strategize. He can starve himself all day, when he meets that bear he’s going to be hungry. And this is what separates us from the animals: the creative capacity for violence. The bear only has the law of the jungle on his side. Oh bears don’t live in the jungle you say. Sure... you’ve been talking to my learned friend I guess there is a law against it. A kind of natural law. Let me tell you, when you meet a bear in the jungle, no law is going to save you. That’s why they tell you when you meet a bear, punch it in the face. That’s the last thing that bear is expecting. …
What weighs more a constitution or a cruise missile? I’ll save you the trouble it’s a missile. I weighed them.
Darwin’s theory of evolution has it that survival will be had by the fittest. I’m no expert in his work, but I think it will be safe to assume that by fittest he meant those willing to inflict violence. … See… Darwin’s theory is violence incarnate. …
Please help explain why countries such as Haiti flourish while passive states full of fancy laws such as Switzerland wallow in poverty and decay.
This is not about whether you believe me. This is not about laws or violence or laws that allow violence or violent chainsaw wielding tries of law. In the end this is only about one thing. That’s right. The children. When you loose sight of the children, we loose our way. Simply put, I believe the children are our future; that we should treat them well and let them lead the way. All the beauty that they posses inside. Give them a sense of pride to make it easier and let the children’s laughter remind them how we used to be. And the best way, the only true way, is violence.
Katie:
Who do you think would win a find. Let’s pick me and, hmm.. Professor Edinger. Before You get too excited, I asked this only to prove a point. The point being that people are much more interested in violence then a regular verbal debate as evidenced by the fact that you are all quietly debating in your head who will win that fight instead of listening to what I have to say. The similar reaction to when Sean talked about wearing lulu lemon pants.
Violence is on television. Children like television. Our opponents don’t like violence. Your opponents hate children?
Money is the root of all evil. The winner of this competition gets the money. Our opponents want to win this evil money. I’m not kidding. They actually said that.
I think lord Denning put it best. When he said: what is the argument on the other side? Only this, that no case has been found in which it has been done before. That argument doesn’t appeal to me in the least. If we never do anything which has not been done before we shall never get anywhere. The law will stand once the rest of the world goes on and that will be bad for both. This may have been recorded in a feelings journal, we can’t be sure, but I’ll tell you what he was getting at. Lord Denning was talking about violence. If he can change the law to suit his purposes, then so can I.
The answer is here and now. And the answer is violence. Don’t be confused. You only need to remember 4 things: 1) that guy needs to get laid. 2) the little v means versus 3) children are our future 4) no one takes your truck. NO ONE!
Honourable Justice Peter Fraser:
Mr. Bandon was Mahatma Ghandi
Mr. Bennett was Woody Alan
We have decided on who wins and who looses. I’m going to say that the people who had the violent side of the debate had an easier ride I think. … Unfortunately in our culture violence is funny. Anyway… I can announce the winners. And I will be passing this microphone so that other people will have their comments. I have to say that this is a terrific event and I’m astounded and pleased at the turnout and it’s something that would have pleased Bob Guile immensely. He was a presence in the profession and it’s hard to believe that its’ been 11 years since he’s died. But his memory is very fresh. He was a sparkplug and irrelevance all through those years while at the same time a terrific lawyer. I am happy to say that his sister Janet and her husband Garry are here tonight.
Do you want me to announce the winners? Violence wins!
Next judge:
Now can we all imagine the province tomorrow morning? The Honorable Mr. Justice Peter Fraser of the Supreme Court of BC is quoted yesterday as saying “Violence Wins!”
And that's it. So I hope you guys enjoyed it. Have fun scanning through the photos.
Kasia
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